RANT entitled: Maybe it's me!!!

[stones]

Is anyone else frustrated at the current state of trade-making in the CFCL? Or is it just me?

Here is my reason for asking:

Without intending to offend anyone, whether present or from our recent past, it just seems that far too often many of the offers I get are the ones where the other party is looking to make THE GREAT RAPE TRADE OF (insert current year here) with me as the intended victim. I am wondering if I am the only one who feels this way.

I know I value payers differently than others. But often, I am left to wonder if I simply do not see the logic of their offer, or if I value players THAT significantly different. Or, I suppose, it could be that I over-value players simply because they are on my roster (or because they are Brewer)! Believe me when I say, if this is something of which I am truly guilty, and it is entirely possible, I do not stand alone in that guilt. I would argue that this becoming epidemic in the CFCL.

I have always tried to work under the respectful premise that we have a very competitive league, with extremely competent and knowledgeable owners. While I would like to include myself as a competent owner, that is not for me to judge. Under this premise, I recognize that I am not smart enough to pull the wool over anyone’s eyes with a silly trade offer. Therefore, I attempt to make trade proposals that in my mind (and subject to my possible earlier mentioned foibles) are helpful to both teams. I like to refer the objective of my trade offers as creating a Win, Win for both clubs.

Yes, I also subscribe to the tenant of “You don’t get if you don’t ask”, but only to a point! I have found in life that if you “do” ask for something deemed ridiculous by the other party, you more often than not get nothing and burn the bridge behind you for future negotiations.

As I said, this rant doesn’t apply to every trade discussion, nor does it apply to every owner. I am going to assume that by this post that I will offend some people, possibly to the point of them not wanting to even try trading with me in the future. Some are probably already at this point. But I can assure you that this isn't my intent. If I have offended anyone, I deeply and sincerely apologize.

I am honestly and openly looking for an answer to this question. I am certainly willing to hear that it is just me. I am sincerely open to that, if it's the consensus. And if it is, I promise to think about how I can change or, maybe better said, if I can change!

[MGrage]

Aloha,

The short answer : Yes, it's you.
The long answer : Yes, it's you.

Anyways, this is an ultra-competitive league, but like any league there are teams/owners who are better than others. And then there's me. I'm with you in that I always tried to be fair and offer something of value to make a trade. But then sometimes I also like di*king with you just to see the pretty colors your face turns. <EG>

Not every trade discussion has to result in a deal. Half the fun for me is just the negotiations in of itself. I'd say for every trade I've made, 4 never got consummated for one reason or another. I've had heated discussions with you in the past and we sometimes don't see eye to eye, but won't let me stop from trying again.

Well, take it easy Steve. See you in a couple of months. Mahalo

Matt

[stones]

Matt, as usual I knew I could count on you!

As I said, I am open to hearing that its just me. Some people enjoy the mating ritual, while others just like to get down to the act.

The interesting thing is I didn't even name you and yet you knew you provided some (much) of the inspiration for this rant!

You and I have definitely had our share of frustrating conversations about how we value players. In fact I will go so far as to say, I am confused how you ever get any trades done?

If he can get trades done...My lord, it is me!

[Nick's Picts (archived)]

I think the biggest hurdle to completing trades is that no one is ready to cash in their chips yet. In my own case, I am not willing to part with a certain player unless it is a completely unbalanced trade in my favor--and I'm not talking about Barfield who I am still willing to deal in an even steals for RBI trade. I think as June/July rolls around there will be owners more willing to sell the present for the future. This doesn't help you now of course.

* puts on his EC hat

I am not playing Hall Monitor but negotiating merely to get a rise is little more than trolling and doesn't do much for building community. I understand that this is a competitve league and we are all here for the competition, but I also think it is a gentlemen's league where baiting and the like are not included in the Venn diagram of expected owner behaviors. I am not saying that mild teasing and the like are verbotten—there is a line that can be drawn using common sense. I know Steve can fend for himself but felt compelled to say something. So I guess I am playing Hall Monitor after all. At any rate, I suppose it is a self-policiing behavior in that karma is a beach.

[MGrage]

Hmm, I liked you better without the Hall Monitor hat Nick. *harumph* Is it too late to withdraw my nomination? I bet Eric wouldn't go down on me so hard. Hmm, maybe I should re-phrase that ....

Nah, if Steve can leave in his mating ritual which I'm sure involves a series of intricate hand gestures and deep throat warbling, then I can leave that equalling disturbing image.

Anyways, I was only kidding when I said I maliciously lowball Steve, Narc, er Nick. And Steve? It's supremely easy to make a bad deal like all the ones I made last year, like the one where I gave away Mike Gonzalez for some loose pocket lint and a kazoo. Mahalo

Matt

PS. Nice day out, huh?

[redhots]

Uh Oh.....the new guy is saying something again........

I think different owners have different "styles" when it comes to trading and trade negotiations. Some may jive well with me and some may not sit well with me.......I don't take it personally......it just makes it harder for me to get a deal done with that type of owner.

I think we all value players differently which is part of the equation. I believe we are also more "protective" of players we drafted. Most of them we drafted for a reason and while we believe they will or may live up to that reason another owner may not.

As Nick pointed out.......it's early and while some of us are higher or lower in the standings than we may have projected we are hesitant to make a move this early as we still believe in those projections and know that most of the players will revert to form and god forbid we trade someone just before they hit that hot streak to come back to where they should be or trade that player who is playing way over his head........then once you trade them they continue that way all year and another team reaped the benefits of his "breakout" year.

I talked trade with several of you prior to this season..........I even was able to get a Brewer from Steve in my only deal......which I am still happy with even with Lehr's blow up the other day. (Heck....don't all trades for a Brewer pretty much have to go through Steve?) I almost made a couple deals and went back and forth several times with offers all over the map with another owner who remain anonymous unless they would like to come forth. Those negotiations got a little heated at one point and I actually thought "great, I've already alienated an owner and I haven't even attended my first draft." I was less "attached" to the players on the team I took over because they were "Jason's" players. I did value the players a certain way however. I may think a certain player is overrated while you think they are preparing for a break out. We won't know who is right or wrong until later.

I always TRY and present both sides of every deal I propose or counter. I DON'T always get it right and sometimes respond quicker than I should with a short response that includes zero details.

I don't ever take something said about one of my players personally. I may disagree but I know it's not a personal attack on me.....we just disagree on the value of a player or two or ten.

To answer the initial question after all this mumbo-jumbo babble.......

No. I am not frustrated with the current state of trading in the CFCL. I am the new guy however and haven't had time to get frustrated. Now when I am scrambling to make a deal as you all are wheeling and dealing sending your teams to the top of the standings while I slowly tailspin into oblivion I might re-visit this thread and change my answer.

Not even sure all that came out the way I intended or if I said all I planned to say.........if not, I'm sure I'll be back to clarify.

Until then........